Pennsylvania Watershed Atlas Meeting, August 17, 1999

Meeting Objective

PURPOSE: To discuss geospatial activities, issues, and needs in relation to Pennsylvania watersheds.

GOAL: To chart possible future geospatial actions.

10:15 AM	Sign in (Categorizer) Please provide your name, organization, address, email, phone, and fax.
10:30 AM	Presentations (Categorizer)
11:30 AM	Visions for PA Watershed
12:00 PM	Lunch
1:00 PM	Geospatial data catalog (Categorizer) What is your vision?
1:30 PM	Data access (Categorizer) What is your vision?
2:00 PM	Education and outreach (Categorizer) What is your vision?
2:30 PM	Group Presentations
3:30 PM	Next Steps (Categorizer) What are our next steps? What do we do now?
3:50 PM	Adjourn Meeting

Sign in (Categorizer)

Participant Instructions
Please provide your name, organization, address, email, phone, and fax.

Brian J. Hill, French Creek Project, Box 172 Allegheny College, Meadville, PA 16335, (814) 332-2946, (814) 333-8149 (fax), Frenchcrik@aol.com
Kim Burns-Braidlow, FGDC 590 National Center, Reston, VA 20192, kburns@usgs.gov 703.648.5549 (v), 703.648.5755
Marty Gutowski PASDA 302 Walker University Park, PA 16802 gutowski@essc.psu.edu 814.863.4562
Bill Manner, Pa. DEP - Northeast Watershed Coordinator, HC 1 Box 95B, Swiftwater, Pa. 18370; 570-895-4044; manner.bill@dep.state.pa.us
Jason Shenk-ORSER 204 Church Hall Middletown, PA jrs31@psu.edu 717-948-6755
Dave Ondrejik, National Weather Service, 227 West Beaver Ave #402 State College, PA 16801, daveo@supercel.met.psu.edu, 814-234-9412 ext 234, 814-234-9635
Chris Pfeiffer, PASDA, 141 Land and Water, University Park, Pa, cxp7@psu.edu, 814-863-8792
Janet B. Thorne, Executive Director, Hollow Oak Land Trust, P. O. Box 741, Moon Township, PA 15108; e-mail: holt@trfn.clpgh.org; phone: (412) 264-5354, fax: (412) 264-5354
Candie C. Wilderman Environmental Studies Department, Alliance for Aquatic Resource Monitoring, Dickinson College, Carlisle, PA 17013 wilderma@dickinson.edu, 717-245-1573, fax 717-245-1971
John Livengood, IUP, 590 School St. Indiana, PA 15701 KDLF@grove.iup.edu (724)465-4613
Jen Novak, Allegheny Watershed Network/PA Environmental Council, 64 S. 14th St., Pittsburgh, PA 15203, awn@sgi.net, (412) 481-9400, (412) 481-9401
Paul J. Kinder, Jr., Canaan Valley Institute, P.O. Box 673, Davis, WV 26260, 1-800-922-3601, pkinder@mail.canaanvi.org, www.canaanvi.org
Desiree Henning Dudley, PA DEP, SERO, 555 North Lane, Suite 6010 Lee Park, Conshohocken, PA 19428, (610) 832-6102, fax (610) 832-6133, Henning.Dudley.Desiree@dep.state.pa.us
Roxanne Shiels ClearWater Conservancy 2555 North Atherton St. State College PA 16803 ph 814-237-0400 fax 814-237-4909 email rcshiels@yahoo.com
Kerry Wedel, Center for Watershed Stewardship, 227 E. Calder Way, University Park, PA 16801, klw14@psu.edu, 814-865-3334 (p), 814-865-1378 (f)
Terry R. Fabian, Deputy Secretary for Field Operations, PA DEP, PO Box 2063, Harrisburg, PA 17105, phone 717-787-5028; email fabian.terry @dep.state.pa.us
Scott Hoffman, US Geological Survey, WRD, 840 market street lemoyne, pa, 17043, ph:(717)730-6945, FX: (717) 730-6997
Scott B. Dane, PASDA, Data Manager, sbd3@psu.edu or sdane@pipeline.com, 814-863-3531, University Park, PA
Eric Jespersen, PaMAGIC/Rettew Associates, 48 Christman Rd, Drums, PA 18222,ecj@epix.net,570-788-4634
Tracey Walrath, Penn State University, 101 Land and Water Bldg, txw159@psu.edu, (814)865-9753
Michael E. Moore,DCNR- PA Geological Survey,PO Box 8453, Harrisburg, PA 17105, mmoore@dcnr.state.pa.us, 717-783-7258, 717-783-7267
Dave Hockman-Wert, Juniata Clean Water Partnership, RD 1 Box 7E, Huntingdon, PA 16652, dhwert@yahoo.com, (814) 627-5391, (814) 627-5182
Ryan Baxter, PASDA, The Pennsylvania State University, 141 Land & Water Research Building, University Park, PA 16802, reb186@psu.edu, 814-863-8791
Jineen Boyle DEP Southcentral Regionalffice 909 Elmerton Avenue Harrisburg PA 17110 Boyle.Jineen@dep.state.pa.us(717)705-4916 (717)705-4930
James McGonigle, Stroud Water Research Center, 970 Spencer Road, jmcgonigle@stroudcenter.org, 610-268-2153, 268-0490
Keith High; National Park Service; 294 Old Milford Road, Milford, PA 18337; Keith_High@nps.gov; 570.296.6952 x10; 570.2964706 (fax)
Nancy Crickman PADEP, SERO, 555 North Lane, Lee Park Suite 6010, Conshohocken, PA 19428 610-832-6100 (phone) 610-832-6133 (fax) crickman,nancy@dep.state.pa.us
Deb Nardone, Juniata Watershed Coordinator, Chesapeake Bay Foundation, RD #1 Box 7E, Huntingdon, PA 16652, (814) 627-5082, Fax: (814) 627-5182, Email: dnardone@savethebay.cbf.org
John Benhart, Jr. Dept. of Geography & Regional Planning Indiana University of PA (IUP) Rm 10 Leonard Hall 421 North Walk Indiana, PA 15705-1087 Jbenhart@grove.iup.edu Phone: (724)357-7652 Fax: (724)357-6479
R, John Dawes, Consultant Heinz Endowment Environmental Program, R.D. 1, Alexandria, PA 16611 ph. 814 669 4847, FAX 814 669 1323, e-mail rjdawes@aol.com
Richard A. DeVore, PA DEP - SCRO, Watershed Coordinator, 909 Elmerton Avenue, Harrisburg, PA 17110 (717)705-4906, Fax (717)705-4930, E-mail - devore.richard@dep.state.pa.us
Mike Mayhak, Mackin Engineering Company, 117 Industry Drive, RIDC Park West, Pittsburgh PA 15275 (412)788-0472 FAX: (412) 787-3588 E-mail: mam@mackinengineering.com
Warren R. Huff, Delaware River Basin Commission, 25 State Police Drive, PO BOX 7360, West Trenton, NJ 08628-0360, 609/883-9500 ext.237, 609/882-9522 fax, whuff@drbc.state.nj.us
Helen Olena, Pa. Department of Environmental Protection, P.O. Box 2063, Harrisburg, PA 17105-2063, (717) 772-1828, Olena.Helen@dep.state.pa.us
Dale Bruns, GeoEnvironmental Sci. & Eng. Dept., Wilkes University, PA GIS Consortium, Wilkes-Barre PA 18766, 570-408-4610, 570-408-7861, dbruns@wilkes.edu
Bill Toothill 143 Stark Learning Center Wilkes-Barre, PA 18766 btoothil@wilkes.edu 570.408.4616 fax 570.408.7861

Presentations (Categorizer)

great job, Kim
No more funding until fall 2000?
what range/type of organizations are participating with NSDI/FGDC?
These small grants may be useful to our watershed organizations.
Good overview!
Everyone creates metadata, it's just not always FGDC compliant and/or comprehensible to others
Kim, please make the metadata training material available to the group when completed.
pls provide solid contact information to all 1999 grantees
From Kim - The 2000 grant program will be announced in the fall with proposals selected in the early spring for dissemination in early summer. Organizations that are participating with FGCD include not only fed. agencies but states, counties, academia, private industry and professional societies.
Terry, what is the Web site for the Earth Week land use imaging map?
Where can we access information about the ArcView NGO grant program?
DEP's Land Cover poster is not on the website! Sorry! For a hard copy, call Helen Olena at (717) 772-1828.
From Kim - I'll e-mail this group when the metadata training material is available, as well as when the communication tool box for state policy makers is available. The communication tool box should prove to be a valuable resource to present to your local officials when asking for increases of resources to support your GIS efforts.
Another ArcView grant program to conservation organizations can be found @ www.esri.com/conservation.
What relationship between riparian buffer initiatives and watershed programs at DEP?
conservation above- meaning watershed groups, land trusts, etc.
Terry Fabian, Can you provide guidance as to how the DCNR endorsed product produced by W.Va. Univ. on watershed characterization will be incorporated into the DEP GIS initiative.
To DEP - Will the info that underlies the EPICS GIS system on DEP's website be made available for download, so that watershed organizations/data users can incorporate it into their own GISsystems? Presently, one can only view DEP's data, not incorporate it into a local system.
to IUP: Have you coordinated your water data-collection efforts with USGS, NAWQA program in the Allegheny-Monongahela river basins?
Since a large percentage of stream impairment is from NPS, riparian buffers play an important role in WQ improvement. The central office bureau activities are coordinated with our regional watershed coordinators. Riparian buffers should be a part of the local watershed planning efforts and can be considered in many of our grant programs(319, WRAP, Ches.Bay etc).
How do you identify communities that are willing to participate in your watershed planning education projects?
The currrent EPICS system will become obsolete as our total MIS comes on board this fall. I'm not sure the extent to which your larger data issue will be resolved. Nelson.kimberly@dep.state.pa.us might be better able to answer your question. I'll check with her as well.
How does the Upper Susquehanna-Lackawanna Project mesh with the Congressional monies that were obtained by McDade several years ago ? Those funds were specific to the Lackawanna but intended to plan for and address similar issues.
Bill Toothhill - What were someof the other research foci of your project?
Mike M. - Are there specific data type requirements for river conservation plans? Data accuracy requirements? Data format and dissemination guidelines?
Mike - What's the buffer distance from the river?
Mike, You mention goals of the "client". Who are the clients?
Mike - Could you list (again) the grants and other activities that have followed your study?
From Mike -- For 26 & 27 : See my handout for more details re:clients/grants. For 25: buffer varies by project, usually 1000-2000 feet, sometimes with additioal transportation/demographic buffer up to 2 miles. For 24: DCNR has required data in Arc/Info export format; we've usually tried for 2000-scale with 40ft accuracy, in state plane feet, NAD83.
Roxanne... what is your source of funding for the Spr Creek Community project ?
Kim - What is considered a small grant? Can you list a range of dollars?
Roxanne - What range of reactions do you get from various munis... in terms of their diversity of views on growth control, etc.
for Roxanne - are you getting good cooperation from the county planning commissions in the areas ??

Geospatial data catalog (Categorizer)

Participant Instructions
What is your vision?

Group 1

We think that are three visions are very similar, related - one system with 3 components
thumbnails of what data looks like- in other words, make metadata more visual, graphical
love this idea
Helps user visualize data extent.
If they are images make sure they are small. Best to use GIF format.
some datasets (like those "in production") will only be useful to others after personal contact or discussion- for instance, we may use data developed at wildly different scales for visual presentations only- wouldn't want anyone to use for analysis - fitness of data? who decides what is fit?
who decides
List projects that have used a data set.
Fitness of geographic data or attributes. One may be great the other garbage

Group 2

Be flexible to new technology (open GIS technology)
And be flexible enough to support old technology.
Needs to be user friendly re access and search.
Generate data in "compliant" form.
Need incentive for people to document their data.
Need central repository for metadata.
PASDA makes sense for this
Address liability issues associated with metadata.
Realize regardless of what you do and how careful you are some one will be able to sue you.

Group 3

A condensed metadata format is needed explaining key characteristics (datum, projection, scale,format) in addition to full-blown metadata.
Metadata submission should be in standardized format accessible with a browser.
Metadata should be in database format such that queries could be done based on keywords (i.e. scale, projection, property, ...accuracy)
Metadata should be linked to a spatial feature (polygon, vector, point) such that spatial searches of metadata could be performed.
Need to be able to visually examine the data, prior to download, using only a browser.
Metadata on applications, educational materials (slides, powerpoint...), activities can be searched

Group 4

Since there are often multiple data sets that cover the same areas, it would be very helpful to have access to material that explicitly compares them to guide the user in making choices regarding the most appropriate sets to use.
There needs to be enough supporting on line materials so that people with limited technical resources can access and utilize the data. This is a high priority and may involve being able to manipulate data sets on line.
Different projections are always a problem and it would be useful to either have standardized projections or possible a web site where projections could be converted.
I think this is an excellent idea! As a "user" only, I'm always faced with this problem.
Please remind users that reprojecting data degrades the quality of the data.
I think that the projection should be identified for each data set. PASDA could recommend that data sets be posted in geographic format. Beyond that, no standards should be set.
If reprojecting the data degrades the quality, maybe the metadata could address this and give non-technical people an explanation of the extent of degradation
Question (no consensus in group): Would it be more valuable for people themselves to create metadata or for PASDA to take charge of creation of metadata?
Creator of data should have metadata responsibility. PASDA staff do not (I assume) know all the specifics for each data set they post.
Effective searching is really important.
User needs access to lists of similar data sets -- could be accomplished through good search methods.
Maurie's comment causes me to wonder if there will be a source of data access for watershed groups. This is really needed. Is the current PADEP database (EASI v. anyone el

Group 5

Demonstrate the value of metadata to those producing data sets.

Since local gov organizations must deal with and produce data that crosses their borders how can we get them not to get upset? State funding? Force them?

Convince data producers understanding that without metadata they cannot properly market their data for sale.

Projection data in the metadata must be complete, users need more than projection type and datum, need easting/northings, reference latitudes, etc.

Data access (Categorizer)

Participant Instructions
What is your vision?

Group 1

Build a demonstration of the "Virtual Lab" for a watershed- can you really do it? (pull info from PennDot, DEP, etc. etc.)

Many watershed groups are doing this already -- Check with groups that have Rivers Conservation grants through DCNR

We are trying to decentralize decision making while somewhat centralizing data management - why tinker with Laissaire Faire? (So we can't spell it!)

Centralizing data management is so valuable to others.

I hope that a data centralization for volunteer generated data is seriously being considered. I think that PASDA is the best palce for this. Does anyone like the PADEP volunteerl database (EASI v. nonEASI)??

Must allow data to be checked out, changed and then checked back in

need unique data set ID that provcides simple tracking of chain of development for data sets
Group 2

Need statewide standardization of data and software, possibly using state funding as an incentive.

Here's the political boundary again, what about a watershed that crosses a state boundary? Undoubtably the "standards" will not be the same. What is needed is a broader standard that simply statewide.

There is an incentive to develop the data locally, but no incentive to provide metadata, so the state funding should be targetted to assist local governments with their needs and require them as part of the grant program to provide information about data sources and accuracy and/or require certain format in order to qualify for reimbursement from state.

Need data translation by software to a standard form.

Need free and easy access to data, thereby minimizing creation of non-standard systems.
Group 3

Data should be viewable prior to download using a browser

Spatial "clipping" or subsetting of data shoud be possible (i.e. where you need a watershed and streams etc.but data is stored by county or state)

Geospatial Information Council needs to coordinate data collection and documentation with users..
Group 4

We agree with the vision as stated.

We would anticipate that there will be some difficulty compiling data on a watershed basis from multiple municipalities, etc. There needs to be technical support for this process.

Will need financial support in addition to technical.

A big issue is gaps: some counties have good data, others within the watershed are missing layers. How can we even the playing field, so to speak.

Metadata needs to be hot-linked to data layers and vice versa.

Incentives will need to be developed to motivate communities to participate.
Group 5

Many rural areas cannot access PASDA effectively. Rural area's phone lines are simply too noisy to allow the download of large data-sets.

Offer data on alternative media for those without effective internet access. Must be cheap and quickly delivered.

Offer historical data sets. Maintain historical data sets.

Define accuracy of each data set or establish a set of standards for different types of data.

Produce a long range schedule of what data will be available when.

Education and outreach (Categorizer)

Participant Instructions
What is your vision?

Group 1

Allow local input into the Altas - why do we care about a particular watershed or what work are we doing in "X" watershed

The Atlas should inventory watershed or stream projects (whether they be local, state, or federal) - allow users to ask- who is working on "X", or historically, what has happened in "X" watershed

watershed and GIS education should be provided to all taxpayers not just K-12

Educate people to think in terms of watershed boundaries instead of political boundaries by leveraging the public investment we have already put into the development of spatial data

Group 2

Make a GIS package to link GIS to PDE environment/ecology standards and science/technology standards.

This might fit with the Governor's Link to Learn Initiative and would be a logical proposal for a player such a Penn State to state

Involve educators in design of product or training course. Support course with intermediate unit training. For example, like Project Learning Tree or Project Wet.

Build on 1st National GIS Day, November 17.

I see you are falling for the ESRI propaganda.

Federal Dept. of Commerce and PA Dept. of Community and Economic Development should facilitate GIS training to local municipal decisionmakers/planners.

Group 3

Education needs to expand to all GIS users and decision-makers. Educational materials on potential uses of GIS for watersheds, counties, townships, etc. need to be developed.

Better communication between groups needed to avoid redundant work. Better sharing of applications and procedures is needed.

A project starts, they know nothing about

Group 4

There needs to be a funded effort of education and outreach to assure full use of the catalog by potential users and to ensure communication between users so that efforts can be shared.

Atlas information needs to be extremely simple for classroom use.

Community people, professionals, college students, etc. also need to be targets of an outreach and educational effort.

Importance of the atlas needs to be articulated clearly and simply for all potential users.

PArt of the educational outreach should include ideas on how data can be utilized to take action towards solutions.

The community-focused teacher professional development ops work here.

Group 5

Allow schools to do geographic searches for both local data sets and data producers

Break down curriculum categories into grade levels.

Facilitate trading of data sets and curriculum materials between schools and school districts through the commonwealth and beyond.

Provide comment section, so that teachers can evaluate and say this is good or this stinks.

Make sure those using the data understand where it came from, who produced it, what resources it took to product the data, etc.

Try to convey how long and how much money it took to produce data.

Next Steps (Categorizer)

Participant Instructions
What are our next steps? What do we do now?

We need to make the data more accessible to the users.

Standardized data.

standards statewide

Continue meetings like this one today.

PASDA must take the lead on developing the connection for volunteer generated data.

Provide metadata and educate on the need for quality metadata.

Provide local conservation/watershed groups with canned program (video?) on GIS values that can be presented to municipal decisionmakers.

Must allow feedback of previous users to be seen.

Build watershed oriented search engine to query metadata.

better metadata creation software

Review suggestions, prioritize, pick the important ones and implement

Just do it! Give PASDA the mandate.

More meetings like this

Penn State should continue/expand GIS training on a regional basis to raise general awareness and specific awareness among GIS practioners.

Although there is plenty of GIS based knowledge in this room, there is a definate need for this experience to be translated into easy to understand instructions for average users

Make PA enhancements to FGDC metadata:

cost field

data set critiques

unique data set ID #

Provide the metadata cataloge and make it easy to navigate.

1. Identify all organizations/agencies/etc. that are related to watershed research. 2. Contact them and try to get them to cooperate in joint efforts for data sharing.

Appoint me as GIS Czar.

hear, hear!!

And make sure my salary exceeds $250,000/yr.

Survey counties and municipalities to learn existing data parameters; look for standards.

Identify individuals willing to work on the formulation of these ideas and form a Working Group to continue effort. This group can provide info. to all users as to progress. Eventually lead to a plan with objectives etc.

if pa is going to be a technological leader in this field, then do it right the first time around! designation/resources/funding etc. must be charged to a selected group to get the data clearinghouse in order and correct or accurate to a standard and agreed to procedure.

Bring everyone up to date on what is already available in an easy to use format and then build from there.

support the development of open GIS

Need a standardized metadata system established to submit data

Must find an easy way to convert all data into same projection,etc.

ensure all PA state agencies are using same standards to create data, metadata.

Spread the word and build support for these efforts among more stakeholders. Sounds like some additional funding will be necessary to pull this off.

I like the comment in no.12

I would like to see some applications of "canned" watershed models: BASINS, W.V. model, others; to identify on practical basis some data access and cataloging issues, including metadata and quality of original data

Need clearinghouse for data, metadata, and education

What is GIS? Aren't there suppose to be cookies?

More internet-based gis...simple spatial operations, clipping etc. Makes it easy to maintain one master dataset.

How do I write metadata? Obviously, the creation of metadata is a very foreign process for me and others.

Maintain and offer a list of who has used what datain the past.

This day has been typical of most GIS initiatves. We talk about data, we see some presentations of the results. There are few resources to get people from one to the other. There is too much duplicationof effort. We need a clearing house for tips, tricks, comments scripts, and other resources to get people up and running quickly. Projections is a good example, there is lots of talk about the problems reprojecting data sets. If you know the projection of the data, ereprojecting is no big deal. We need a place where people can come tyo find that type of info.

Get a pilot project up and running to help build support for the full blown project.

much more training at all levels is needed.

Provide awards/recognition to municipal planning departments that demonstrate use of effective use of GIS consistent with state standards.

Develop a standard easy to use meta data entry form and distribute it to all licensed arcview users.

Must have more meetings to get more free lunches at the Penn Stater!!!!!

College interns are walking out with better abilities in this arena than the state employees charged with collecting/maintaining this information for "official" purposes. Train your staff persons adequately first and foremost!

Your open GIS conference might have some session(s) with a focus on issues from watershed perspective

Program was informative. May want to do regionally.

Encourage release of completed but "hostage" data (e.g., Allegheny County's)

Build a database of publications and studies that have used data sets downloaded from PASDA.

Take an active role in educating public officials and educators about GIS and the importance of standardization

Look at EPA's new STORET as WHAT NOT TO DO! They required metadata for all new data sets. Old data will be archived and not readily available. Let's face it, any data is good if its the only data. Suggest we try for a web clearinghouse. This goes beyond state boundaries!!!

Settle on any standards soon, so that data and resources can be organized and shared in the appropriate way. i.e., avoid backtracking.

The state might consider hiring a GIS person...

Require standardization of Ginformation

Give everyone a summary of the atlas proposal so we have a better idea of what you want to achieve.

All the river basins cross state lines, PA can take a leadership role, BUT must NOT define standards in statewide "isolation"

Need to facilitate progress on state-wide standards; integration of DCNR GIS and DEP GIS; role of web-based GIS to data access issues

Why not a GIO.

if the watershed approach to environmental problems is going to work, than get the maps designed and out for public dissemination asap. then the groups who physically "live" there and buy into their community to make the exact corrections for future use.

why don't we just have penn state take over the Commonwealth!

Too late it has already happened.

Need to disseminate a good summary of what's been done so far and the vision of what is to be done in the near future. I'm not sure I know where we are.

Stae needs to adopt GIS standard and enforce it at least in it's own departments.

Good workshop, keep the dialogue going; need to reach out to local communities and govt. not just technical experts in the field

watershed is useful as public eye and organizational tool, not going to be data sets created strictly for watersheds

Pennsylvania Spatial Data Access
Penn State Institutes of Energy and the Environment
E-Mail: pasda@psu.edu
©2008 The Pennsylvania State University

About PASDA

Pennsylvania Watershed Atlas Meeting, August 17, 1999